Let's see if we can give him some good advice in the comments section.
Hi , I emailed you earlier this year asking for some help on your blog about my pcl, and last week I finally had surgery which went better than I expected. It's been a week since and I can just about put all of my weight on it with crutches for reassurance. However it is still swollen and I can't bend it past about 30 degrees ( even with a small towel). I am doing all the prescribed exercises as well as ice and compression. I am keen to get the swelling down, is there anything else anyone thinks I should be doing or should it start to decrease within the next few weeks? Thanks
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Hey Alex. Happy to hear it went well. I am scheduled for April 21st to get my PCL and meniscus worked on. Doctor said I have 3 ligaments that need repair. I hope you recover and get back to where you were before. Good luck.
Hey Alex. Happy to hear it went well. I am scheduled for April 21st to get my PCL and meniscus worked on. Doctor said I have 3 ligaments that need repair. I hope you recover and get back to where you were before. Good luck.
Happy to know your okay...
We need help now too..
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Hey! I had my PCL surgery on April 1st. I'm 3 1/2 months post op now. I'm doing fairly well I would say. I can get to full range of motion passively (with the physical therapist bending it for me). Its a bit sore trying to get there, but nothing like what it was 2 months ago. I did have a cortisone shot because I was having so much trouble with my bending and swelling at about 2 months.
My biggest issue now is hamstring pain. I seem to stretch them every day, multiple times a day. But when I try to do my standing hamstring curls, with no weight resistance, it is very sore in the back of my knee. I had an allograft for my graft. It was an Achilles - so they didn't take any graft my patella/hamstring.
Just curious if others have seen this. Also, how long did it take any of you to get back to jogging and then running/jumping? I am doing small jumps right now. Just jumping over a piece of rope. I'm curious to know how others were doing at the 3-4 month mark.
I'm very active in general, so having to take everything easy, and not being able to run around and play in these summer months has been a big downer.
My therapist explained that muscles come back at varying rates, so one muscle may be taking on more of the effort than others. In my case, it was my IT band that woke up first. It was vey sore for a while, but the pain did resolve. If I remember correctly, Skinnygurl had a similar problem.
Any update Angus??
Just had my PCL Recon, my shin hurt quiet abit, swollen and tender, can do lying down calf pumps, quads activation sort off lol, and straight leg raises, been a week, how long till my shin gets better?? Yours take over a week??
Is yours going well??
J
Hey Jai!
Fear not things will get better. I had some shin pain. Not excruciating, but definitely sore. That took several weeks to go away. It seemed to go away about a week after I stopped the prescription pain medicine. I'm 4 1/2 months out now and my shin doesn't hurt, but the sensation of my calf and shins still isn't back to what my other leg is. My quad raises and calf pumps I remember were extremely hard at the beginning. It took a little less than 2 weeks before i could do the straight leg raises. I needed help at the beginning to just get my leg off the ground. Once I did that though I could do the rest on my own.
After the leg raises comes the hardest part I found, which was the range of motion. I'm not going to lie, it was quite painful trying to get the range of motion back. You just have to do everything your PT people say to do and do the amount of times they suggest. A big thing that helped me get my ROM back was to just sit in a high chair or up propped on pillows and let me leg hang. It would start out straight about 40 degrees and then slowly gravity would pull it down while I watched TV or something. That helped me a TON to get to 90. After that it was tricky for me. A lot of stretching, and pushing on it (at PT and home). You just can't give up on it or skip days. Also, once you can start to get on a stationary bike things really pick up. Even if you can't power the bike up or go fully around, just rocking back and forth as much as I could in the pedals helped a ton too.
Once you start to unlock the brace your in, things seem to fly. The range of motion restriction goes down, then you lose the crutches, then no brace. I lost my brace about at week 7.
Hmm, not sure what else I can tell you, but if you have any other questions just ask! I'd love to share my experience with you. I'm 4 1/2 months out and just about to start jogging again in next couple weeks. I'm able to do the agility ladder currently with no issues
Oh yeah, the other thing, just be very cautious with hamstring stuff. That needs to wait until week 10-12 I was told or doing hamstring exercises and even stretches can pull on and disrupt and weaken the graft.
What type of graft did you have?
Best of luck
Wow thank you for that!!!!
Your right since I wrote my last post it's been a week and 1/2 and my shin has finally got easier to deal with,
And stopped taking pain killers as they don't make me feel too good they had like a list of 7 or 8 different pills which I
I get everyone is diff but I preferred to stay away from them soon as pain slowed off, I've got a app with my consultant on Monday who will
Unlock my brace to 30 degrees and then 60 a week after if all goes well, your doing really well and your about to start jogging, exciting lol
I am thinking about getting a ROM just waiting to see what consultant says first, did you use any tens machine?? I've got one but didn't want to use it whilst having staples and stitches in or can I??? I can see my injured leg slowly loosing it's bulk 🙄 But I've been taking amino acids which are helping muscle retention and a decent diet, I just really hope I can go back into football (soccer). You know your injured knee?? Does it look a lot diff to other knee?? Like is the shin back raised to where it should be?? I can't see mine untill dressing comes off.
Yes your right I've been told no hamstrings at all, how long till u could walk??
Thank you again!!
Jai
Sorry to add, I used hami tendant, you??
Jai
Its amazing the progress you will see as the weeks go by. I felt the same way with the pain meds. I only stayed on them for about a week or so before they made me feel worse than the actual pain. I think it was about 4 weeks before the first time they unlocked it. Then from that point out, it seemed like they were unlocking it more and more each week. As far as the TENs machine. I only used that a couple times. I think I used it the first 2 or 3 appointments with my physical therapist immediately after surgery. So I had stopped using that by the end of week 2 post surgery. The Physical Therapist told me it was to help stimulate the muscles it was hooked up against. In my case (and assuming yours), the quad muscle. I also didn't use any ROM machines. I would go to my therapy appointments and the therapist would just bend my leg for me, or I would let it hang in a chair at home like I mentioned previously. I'd wrap a towel around my foot and pull my leg up to my chest, doing heel slides, amongst other various exercises.
My surgery was done all arthroscopically, so I didn't have any big incisions. I had 6 small ones. The biggest one is about 3/4 of an inch long. So I didn't have any staples. I'd be skeptical to use that machine though on my own with medical staples in my leg. I also used a cadaver Achilles graft. The hamstring graft that you had, did that come from your hamstring? Is that sore? As far as getting back into football, I'm sure you will get there. But it is going to take a long time. I play basketball, beach volleyball, and hockey competitively. And I was told that I wouldn't be able to do those for probably 9-12 months post surgery. It stinks. Especially because it is summer here now and I am dying to play sports and run around - but going back into those things too soon is just going to cause further injury and send you back to the beginning.
As far as how my leg looked - it looked weird. My quad muscle was definitely shrunken down and not back to almost normal size until about month 3 or 4. My calf was swollen. My knee was super swollen at the beginning. And it stayed looking like I had no knee at all. Just going from my quad to my shin with nothing in between. That lasted again, until about month 3. Even now, my knee is still a bit swollen and my calf is too. My calf though I think, is more so because of muscle loss. It just doesn't look defined anymore, and looks fat. My doctor told me it will still be a while before all of that swelling goes away completely, but eventually it will get there. I don't recall my shin looking weird, other than my whole lower leg looking swollen really, and even sore to the touch a bit at first. You just have to remember that the surgery you had was a serious and traumatic surgery for your body. There is going to be lots and lots of swelling that will last for a while. So ice, ice, ice. I still ice today.
At about week 10, my range of motion sort of "plateaued" at 100 degrees and my swelling still hadn't changed much, my leg was still sore, etc. so my doctor gave me a cortisone shot in my knee. That provided a ton of relief and major improvements. The swelling went down a ton in the next couple weeks. The pain decreased a lot, and my range of motion finally got to where it was supposed to be. But I wouldn't recommend getting that until you need it, and only if you really do need it. But just know that when things seem to get to a standstill, there are still tricks the doctors can pull out of their pockets to help out.
I was able to walk with crutches immediately. I was putting say 25% weight on my leg immediately. I think it was week 3 that I started to put 50% weight on it. At week 4 I believe I went down to one crutch. And then at week 5 I wasn't using any crutches, but I was still in the brace.
Hope all this info helps and gives you some encouragement. The toughest is certainly the first 8 weeks I found. It will get better, I promise!Let me know what other you, or any one else has for questions!
-Steve
In to my third week, can start placing weight on it but not completely, your rights tens machine seems useless lol, pain is gone now one few lil sharp stabs randomly though. Prob Nerves rebuilding, last week consultant unlocked brace to 30 degrees and I'm seeing him and pt in 4 days to unlock it further. Yea it was my hamstring and it hurt for a few days but they heal quick! It's a bit tight but that's all now. Why was your calf and knee so swollen?? Mine wasn't too bad not its normal look but getting thin ha ha. When I ment if your shin looks weird as in can you see your shin bone raised back to where it was before?? Basically the tibia sag from pcl injury. Yours back to where it's suppose to be?? I can't see mine just yet as it's still healing lil bit of swelling there. Hopping to lose a crutch next week, just want to start waking lol, you've been a massive help I didn't think my shin would stop hurting it' was like major shin splints ha ha but it's sweet now thank you
J
I can't give you much feedback about how your shin will look. Mine didn't look really much different from normal even before I had the surgery. Glad to hear you're moving in the right direction!
I know I'm joining the party late but just read some of your comments, and makes me feel a whole lot better knowing that you guys have been through the PCL rehab too. I'm ten weeks post-op now after having pcl and posterolateral recons. I'm an unusual case in that my injury was nearly 20 yrs ago playing football, and has taken me this time to find an OS who was happy and confident to do it.
Won't lie, the operation has been difficult to recover from and am still sore and stiff, especially on colder days!
Like you sbetty213 my ROM seems to have plateaued at around 120 degrees, and has been a worry. Hoping it's just due to swelling still. Haven't been using ice much, except at the beginning
Hey mate, I'm 4 months in to rehab now, leg still looks like a chicken wing, but swelling is pretty much gone and I'm walking pretty good now. My consultant said no icing just let it heal, still doing small squats and one leg balancing. They are taking the slow approach as I need to be back to sports fully healed. Still stiff inside but I keep getting told it's a very slow process. I have 120 ish rom and I get a lil more rom each week, you in a jack brace full time yet?? Jai
Hi Jai...I went to a clinic in Scotland who are using the Arthrex internal brace, so have never been in an external brace. He's seen great results in the last five years, and ideally if he can get in early enough he will try and repair rather than reconstruct which can provide significant advantages.
In my case though he had to take a hamstring graft and do a full recon. along with the lateral ligament. There's still a bit of slippage in the knee but nothing like what it was, just having to trust the procedure , do the PT and hope for the best! Keeping working on quads, avoid isolated hammies. My consultant expects me lose around 10-15 degrees of flexion, but hopefully that will be outweighed by the new stability.
Great to hear from you Jai, hang in there mate!
Mike
Hi All,
I'm 3 days out of surgery for PCL, ACL and MCL reconstruction and reading the posts on this blog helps me a lot in preparing for what's to come with the rehab programme.
One thing that surprised me was that I had no stitches and was advised to change my own bandage and dressings after 3 days which I've done today..I was wondering if this is normal procedure to have to change your own dressings post op as I was expecting to have to visit a GP to get it done and it seemed a little early for me to be messing with dressings?
Thanks
Ben
Hey Ben!
I had stitches but the physical therapist took them out after about 7 days. But even before the stitches were out (and after) I was cleaning and dressing the cuts on my own. I just used a little of hydrogen peroxide on a sterile pad and taped it on.
My biggest suggestion at the beginning is ice ice ice. As much as you can. I found that helped a lot with the pain. And to not do too much at the beginning. I only had a PCL so I was told I could start weight bearing about 50% right out the gate. I had a nerve block which lasted about 3-4 days after surgery, but once that wore off I regretted how much I did when I couldn't feel anything.
Hmm what else, keep your leg elevated, put a pillow or two under your foot and not your knee. I was told that it's more important to achieve full flexation (being able to extend your leg all the way straight) opposed to getting it to bend right away. Sleeping for me was pretty difficult for about the first 2 months so try not to get discouraged from that. I learned to always wear a sweatshirt with a pocket or something with pockets so that if I needed to carry something I could put it in a pocket while using my crutches.
It's going to take you a while and it's going to seem like a slow process. But you will get there. Be Viligant with what they tell you to do at PT. ask them lots of questions and ask your doctor lots of questions whenever you have them.
Best of luck and reach out of you have any more questions! I know that this group helped me a TON when I was going through everything, so I'd be happy to help others whenever I can!
-Steve
Hi Ben..I had staples taken out at a fortnight after, I'm not sure what the normal practice is, sounds like good advice from Steve with the sterile pads.
Like Steve, I would suggest to try not to do much initially, and don't worry about the lack of flexion as I think I'm right in saying the pcl recon. is even more disruptive to the knee than the acl recon., I know it's awkward especially in bed when you instinctively try to bend it! Are you in a brace for a period of time?
Cheers
Steve / Mike,
I really appreciate your responses and advice, thank you.
I should of mentioned that I'm in a hinged brace, I'm 50% weight bearing and the brace is locked so my leg is completely straight for the first 2 weeks and the PT will unlock to 90 degrees then continue to unlock further each week until week 12 when I should be able to lose the brace completely.
The nerve block has fully worn off now but took your advice on icing and it's helping a lot with swelling and pain relief.
Thanks again for the support and advice, really glad I came across this blog.
Steve, can I ask how your ROM is now in your operated knee?..looking back at the posts are you at around 8 1/2 months now?..would be interested to know ...also have you any laxity in the knee?
Thanks
Mike
Hey Mike -
My range of motion is about 3-4 degrees off from my other leg. They said that was to be expected. Like my other posts say I certainly plateaued for a while before being able to get the last 15/20 degrees to reach "full" ROM. I still do lots of stretching and try to bend my leg as much as possible. The range of motion was by far the worst with the whole recovery. Like Ben, I had the brace locked straight for several weeks aside from PT and my home exercises. Bending it was really painful but it's just something that has to be fought through. It will get there eventually. The best thing I found at the beginning was to just sit in a high chair and let my foot hang and let gravity pull on it. And then once I was able to get a little past 90 degrees I would use an exercise bike and just rock back and forth (I didn't have the range to peddle fully Around. After about 3 weeks of that I could get around and then once I could get around on the bike things really happened quickly from 90-120.
Steve
Forgot to mention I have very minimal laxity in my knee. Each time I've gone to my doctor he pulls on it and says it feels like a rock - so he is really pleased with it. I suppose that could vary per person and the type of graft you have. The doctor said though that not over doing it at the beginning and not working any hamstring muscles at all the first 8-10 weeks though is key for that since hamstrings will pull directly on the surgical point and really stress the graft.
Steve
Welcome everyone,glad to see so much support and information sharing. If anyone would like to be featured on my blog, let me know and I'll get your story posted.
Thanks
Skinnygurl
Hey Everyone,
This has been a great blog to follow. This is my first post and I need a little insight / advice.
My background is that I had MCL, PCL and meniscus surgery back in 2002 (needed a manipulation under anesthesia 4 months later). I recovered very well after and was very active since; however, I started having pain and difficulty walking this past summer about a month after a soccer game. I still have daily pain and cannot walk very well 4 months later. I think I did some damage to my medial compartment (meniscus or cartilage) and possibly my PCL, though it doesn't feel noticeably looser.
I have seen several surgeons in my city and around the US. One well-known PCL specialist measured ~10mm side-to-side laxity and recommended a two-stage PCL revision. However, three other docs (who are also very good and do some PCLs) thought my PCL was not too bad and that I should try a scope first to clean up meniscus and cartilage to see if that solves my problem. They see it as a "free" option, and I can always do the PCL revision if the scope doesn't solve my issues.
Has anyone else gone through a similar situation? I am leaning towards doing the scope first and then doing the big procedure if I still have problems. This seems like the prudent approach to try all conservative options first. However, if the scope fixes my pain, I would be concerned that the root cause is not fixed since PCL laxity can lead to medial and patellofemoral issues down the road. I also will have to switch docs from the scope to the PCL revision, bc the PCL doc doesn't really want to just do a scope.
Thanks,
Aaron
Hey everyone. I had pcl surgery on my right knee a few years ago and I have pain in the front part of my knee and I think the screws in my knee are bothering me. Has any had them taken out?
I don't understand why they can't look in your knee and do what they need to do to fix it. Look around, identify the problem and fix it?
Excellent writing, thanks for sharing
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The PCL is most commonly injured when an athlete receives a blow to the front of the knee. If you have dislocated your knee and torn multiple ligaments including the posterior cruciate ligament surgery is almost always necessary.
Well I'm 7 months in now to my recon
Biking and squats are heaven at the mo
Only doing minimum hammis
Got a tiny bit of lax but from injury and impact it may go but not till after the year mark.
I'm so glad I had the recon because I was unable to squat at all and pain was something crazy.
I've pretty much got full rom now all I'm doing now is muscle mass work. Once my quads and hammis pull tight things should look back to normal. Any one else getting better???
Jai
I'm 11 months out now and id say I'm about 95% better. To be honest I don't think I'll ever get to 100% but I can do everything now that I was before pretty much. I am back to playing hockey, volleyball, everything at the gym. I haven't touched basketball yet just because I'm a bit nervous to try that since that's how I got injured, but I'm sure that and beach volleyball will take place in the next couple months as it starts to get warmer here in New England. I wear a brace whenever I am playing sports (breggs fusion), but any of my static excercised at the gym I do without the brace. I've been super diligent still with my strengthening. I do the gym or something active about 4-5 days a week. I stretch my hamstrings daily, and still do all my leg bending to keep my range of motion as good as I can get it. Glad to hear you're doing better there Jai! Keep up the hard work and it will continue to pay off!
Where dd you get that brace from??
I was thinking about getting one soon as I'm training ball competitively, but consultant and physio Want me to stay away from braces, continue jogging on grass build muscle and let a year and 6 month of healing go by. I feel good like I could play now lol
But wouldn't risk it. You seem all healed up sounds great how your doing so much! Well done Sbetty
J
I got mine through my doctor, which was great so I could use insurance to pay for it. They are expensive. But you can buy them online too I have found through the breggs website or most other brace websites. You just have to make sure you measure your leg properly to get the correct size.
I know what you mean about having that itch to play and get back out there. I certainly had that too. I got the "all clear" at the 9 month mark. And for that first whole month / month and a half of playing things - it was so bad lol. I was uncoordinated, slow, couldn't react or change directions. I was like a freight train whenever I would go from a run to a stop. So once you get back out there it will certainly still take a bit to get back to the level of play you were at. One thing I did was I scheduled an appointment like every 2-3 weeks with a personal trainer/physical therapy person for a few sessions after the sports I was playing. I would tell them, "nothing hurts, but I had trouble doing X" like coming to a stop after sprinting, or turning and accelerating, etc. And then we were able to work on some things to help improve that. And they made a good point. Your whole life, you grow up and learn to run and play sports, etc. well you just took almost a year off. The nerves and stuff in your knee are growing back together, etc. so you have to actually relearn/retrain your body to do those things you were doing!
My pt and Doctor told me to use the brace at least up through 18-24 months and then slowly wean off of it. I guess each person has there different thoughts on it. I try to do as much as I can without it. But whenever I am playing anything or there are "unpredictable"
Movements or cutting involved I definitely use it.
How is the actual sensation on you knew when you touch it? One strange thing I have found is if I scratch or touch the inside of my knee, I feel a tingling sensation on the opposite outside of my knee and vice versua.
Looks like your coming on really well!! I'm so Jel!! I want to be playing lol
The only strange issue is my calf is still pretty numb. The leg I had the op on. I have no other sensations. My muscle mass is around 70 percent. I'm not allowed to take part in any football or twisting work or heavy carrying till my 12 month mark, due to it
being private and my football club involved they don't want any issues. Did you have ultrasound??? How many months went by befor you started jogging?? I'm still not allowed.
J
You'll get there. I noticed that all of a sudden things "clicked" and I was getting way better all of a sudden. I definitely had a lot of numbing and just "weird" sensations in my calf that lasted a really long time, even partly now. So I'm guessing that is probably normal since the graft was probably attached back in that area and the nerves are rebuilding/regenerating together. I didn't have any ultrasounds, did you? What was that for - just to make sure there were no blood clots or something?
I started jogging at about month 4 1/2 - 5. It was really sore at first, and really short distances. I started by jogging 30 - 40 yards at a time, then walking the same distance, jogging again, etc. And I would repeat that about 15 times a session. I would do that about 3-4 times a week. Then I would increase the distance to 50, 75, 100 yards. I was increasing the distance each week. Then once I got up to about .25 miles I would increase my distance by about .10 miles each week/2weeks. My doctor urged me to increase my distance really really slowly. And when I ran, I was running on a high school track so it was softer than a treadmill or running on the road. I would even run on grass sometimes. Running just on the road would be really sore. It was really bizzare going through it. I almost felt dumb to be honest because I would only be jogging such a short distance, and my form was so bad. The first month it looked more like a gallop instead of a jog. PT helped me get my form back until it became natural again.
What type of graft did you have again? I thought we had different ones. Mine was a donor graft - Achilles. I thought you said that yours was from your hamstring, so that could certainly be why they hold you back a bit. My doctor did say that donor graft would be faster to heal then if I did my own hamstring graft.
-Steve
Hi I had a pcl corner stabilisation performed on Tuesday.
I am really struggling to put any weight on it and get mobile. The pain is agony, what was your initial pain like?? I am not in a brace just crutches. Hospital gave me paracetamol for the pain that's not enough what's everbody else taken for pain relief?
Thanks
I was on morphene and I really didn't like the feeling and side effects. Pain does get better literally 3 days
But I had a recon ...
Thanks for that Jai that has reassured me that the pain I'm feeling is normal and not something more to worry about.
I had a recon aswell, using a graft from my shin.
How long ago was yours and what has you recovery been like?
Sbetty you seem to be recovering fast really good news
Did you get clicking when bending or extending??
Ultrasound can help strengthen and heal the new graft. I have been jogging today for a whole min lol felt ok. Physio took me to grass pitch to tease me lol how much you able to squat at the min??
Any reason why the shin graft?? You from the Uk??
My recovery is slow abd boring lol
But that the only route as you don't want to stretch the graft or you need the recon again lol
I didn't walk properly for 3 months
On crutches for 2 months
Be patient trust me things slowly get better
I'm only 6 months in
Consultant said it will take a full year to feel good and another 6 months after the year of training to return to football.
Yeah I'm in uk. Not sure why he used shin.
Ok thanks for the advice, have been resting in bed for the past few days.
Definitely got and sometimes still get the clicking and crack when bending or just getting up or something. Doctor told me that it's just the scar tissue breaking up and it's nothing to worry about and will eventually go away. I'm from the US. I think it's pretty cool that most of us on here had the same injury, and it was all treated differently with different types of grafts/reconstructions. I guess that just truly shows that the PCL and its repair are still something relatively new in the medical world.
That first "run" feel pretty good? Like all of a sudden you are free and want to just go and sprint but then realize you can't yet lol. I'm not doing much weight with squats. When I do them though I am usually doing them on a wobble board or bosu balance ball and some various kettle bell weights. Eventually I'll get to a point where I want to start putting up some good weight, but for now I've been focusing a lot on balance, stability, and coordination while doing other exercises to strengthen my quads. It's worked well for me. I'm actually at the point now where my recon leg is stronger than the other. I work out both, but always do a bit extra on the recon one.
Sbetty how is your laxity?? Forgot to ask you earlier
Can you still move your tibia forward??
Jo
I have just about zero laxity. "Rock solid" in the words of my doctor. What about you?
Calf can be move forward slightly if I tug hard but no movement on pcl graft. Only 6 months in so hopefully that will go. Just love the ability to squat weight lol lol
Pain is more manageable now and starting to weight bear a little. How quickly did you regain the bend as struggling to get mine moving.....
I wasn't allowed to bend for 4 weeks
What did your consultant say?
I was in a extension brace doing calf pumps and leg raises
After 4 weeks my physio saw me every other day and did work on movement
I wasn't off crutches for 2 months
He has said try to get it as mobile as soon as possible. Haven't got a brace but seeing physio Friday so hoping if I ask might get one as used one in the past for injury recovery and found them really helped. My consultant reckoned I'll be back to work in 3-4 weeks. But GP has signed me off for at least 6 weeks but said to expect longer...
Yes, definitely try to bend it as soon as you can, but just be smart about it, and make sure you find a good balance between bending and straightening it. My doctor said he was more concerned with my being able to fully straighten my leg more so than bending it. So if you are sitting with your leg up, make sure you put a pillow or something under your ankle opposed to under your knee. If you aren't able to get your leg fully straight, then you will end up with all sorts of troubles down the road.
I started physio 3 days after surgery and that's when they started getting me to try and bend on my own. I got to maybe 30 degrees doing heel slides on my own, but if I just tried to stand or sit and bend my leg, nothing happened. Just be sure to ask them lots of questions. I'd ask about the brace. I'm surprised they didn't give you one. Similar to what Jai said, I was in mine for 6 weeks. Work is probably dependent on what you do. I do computer work, so I was able to just work from home with my laptop. It was my right leg though, so I couldn't drive for about 6/7 weeks which was a huge annoyance and burden.
Just don't over do it. Ice as much as you can to get the swelling down. I iced my leg every day for almost 3 months probably, and then after every physio appointment. Keep up with all the stretching and exercises they give you. That helped me a lot.
Good luck at physio. Ask them tons of questions and try to get them to give you some expectations and goals so you can know what to expect.
Thanks for that. I can get full extension quite comfortably. When sitting with pillow I have knee fully extended, supported under knee and ankle.
Ok that sounds about right I've got about a 20-25 degree bend when doing heel slides but hardly anything I'd just try normally.
I'm a youth worker so depends a lot on me being on my feet and active so by sounds of it going to be off a while.
Ok that has helped and I have lots of questions ready for physio on Friday.
Thanks for the advice
Will let you know how I get on.
Hi guys,
I injured my PCL back in 2008 and had a level 2 tear. Lived with it until I tore my ACL in 2014 playing basketball. Landed on one foot and knee just gave way.
Did a ACL recon using my hamstring tendon but fell again and stretched the graft.
Coped with the lack of ACL and PCL for a while but I kept injuring my knee in the last year so decided to get another op.
Had a ACL and PCL recon surgery using allograft on 21 Feb 2017 so I'm about 4 weeks out now.
What's different is that my doc allows me to bear weight to tolerance on the first day post op. I was fitted to a Ossur Rebound brace that allow dynamic support to the tibia when the knee is bent, and was allowed up to 90 degrees bend from the first day post op. Was told I need to wear the brace for at least 6 weeks, and longer if I can bear with it.
My initial recovery is pretty fast.
Day 0 - Surgery
Day 1 - Really painful. Was a torture when they lifted my leg up to fit the brace for me, when they helped me out of bed to go for an xray and during the xray itself. Was trembling in pain.
Day 2 - Much better. Could get out of bed by myself, walk around in crutches and even took a shower using a drypro cover on the operated leg. Discharged on Day 2. Can bend leg about 20 degrees with the brace on.
Day 4 - Off painkillers. Can straighten leg to about 0 degrees. Can put full weight on the operated leg.
Day 6 - Off crutches but limping heavily.
Fast forward to 4 weeks - Today is the first time I managed to reach the 90 degree limit on the brace, but it hurts and I can't keep it there for long. My extension is still at 0 degrees and unable to hyper extend. I tried lifting the leg up with a cushion when I sleep or on the soft, but it hurts quite badly for a minute or so when I'm removing the leg from the cushion. I'm still walking with a limp as a result. Knee is still swollen, and lower leg is still a little bloated from water retention.
My doc says not to worry about the ROM or extension at this point and that they used to keep the knee fully locked at 0 degree for the whole 6 weeks in the past when the PCL brace was not available.
Have not started any physio session except for heel slides and straight leg raise.
Was hoping the lack of hyper extension is due to the knee being swollen. What do you guys think?
I've just got back from my first physio session and he has manipulated the knee and managed to get a 90 degree bend (physio bending rather than me) and then on my own a 50 degree bend. He was happy that the amount of swelling was normal and that ROM would come over time. Suggested a gym ball to do bending exercises with which I have been and brought and sitting down now I can almost get a 90 degree bend on my own.
Such big progress after one session.
Staples came out which has seemed to make it more comfortable (had 32 in there)
Didn't recommend a brace as that would encourage to keep straight rather than bending. I have no issue with getting it straight.
After today I can see progress.....
Could be. Would recommend ice as often as possible.
I was told to maintain my quads which helped when straightening mine. Just simple tense and untensing them whilst laying down.
Athletes undoubtedly need healthy knees to perform their best. But where do you have to start if you are looking for the type of ACL knee surgery that you need? Although it is vital that you consult a physician, it is also important that you take part in the decision making of what can be done to your torn ACL.
Are you on crack?? PCL's!
Hi ,
I have undergone PCL on oct 22nd 2016 and it is around 5 months post op now.
Can some one suggest me the best exercise/physio exercises to deal with at this point of time.
I do stationary bicycling mrng and evening for 15 mins(gap of 2 mins after every 5 mins though) with resistance of around 20 on life fitness machine.
Mine is an autograft hamstring and I canstill feel the laxity in the leg.
@SBetty - I have been going thru ur comments right from 1 month post op and u are the real booseter for most of the readers here. U r a rockstar !!
I am an active sports person and really looking fwd to play cricket.I am from India.
Please let me know what would be that best exercise which will help me ton at this point of time.
Note - I do cycling, theraband blue band now, stepper and wall squats daily evening and only cycling in the morning.
The graft does tighten up in time
But it's very dependant on who's done the op as is a very skillfull procedure
Don't do to much to soon as you can stretch the graft and then your back to square one
Haven't you got a physio advising on what you should be doing??? How much range do I have?
Hi Jai, Thanks for ur reply. My physio has suggested the above exercises and he always stress that cycling will do wonders and do not stop at any point. Just curious abt if i m missing any exercise which the others here would have benefited !! My ROM almost normal - 10 degrees now . Pain still exists a bit. R u able to sprint now ?
Does any one faced issue after 5 months . Everything was fine till then but suddenly i m facing pain in the bone where they are drilled for fixing screws . Please let me know if this is an expected case due to something in graft changes or other ??
Hey KM!
Sorry it has taken me so long to reply. To answer your questions in order, the exercises that I did the most and still do are the following (and let me know if you need me to explain further what these are). Most of them were quad strengthening exercises and then I started to work in some agility, change of direction, and trying to get back into "athletic" shape:
-Biking
-Single Leg Step ups (forward and sideways)
-Single leg step downs (almost like a one legged squat)
-Single Leg leg press-Single leg leg lifts (5 pounds - forward, outside, inside)
-Balance on single leg.
-Balance on single leg with eyes shut
-Single leg Heel raises (basically try to go from flat footed to on my tip toes on one leg)
-Bulgarian lunges
-Squats on a wobble board.
-Hamstring curls (3-5 lbs) **I don't know what your take is on this since you had a hamstring graft**
-At about the 5 month mark I started jogging very slowly and very short distances. I felt so awkward and it was really sore even when trying on grass.
-Heel Slides
-Ladder agility
-Continue doing things to keep range of motion!
-Ice (I iced after every PT appointment and gym session up until about 7 months. I still do now occasionally)
One thing to understand is that at the 5 month mark, you aren't even half way to your "full recovery" point. So be sure to take that into perspective. Biggest thing I can say is, like your PT person said, keep up with your exercises and stretching/range of motion.
At about the 5 month mark I had a set back. I got married and went on a honeymoon so I didnt do PT or any of my exercises really for about 3 weeks. On my honeymoon I went hiking because, well, I wanted to enjoy everything as much as possible. That came back to bite me. It took me about a month and a half to get back to the point I was at before I went away. Everything felt sore, weak, and my range of motion certainly regressed. So keep up with everything as much as possible!
On that note, today is my 1-year mark. I'd say I'm back to about 90%. There are some things that I haven't tried yet. I haven't tried basketball or golf (worried about the twisting and torque & basketball is how I hurt myself). But I have been playing indoor volleyball and hockey. Sometimes I am completely fine after, sometimes I am sore a bit. I think the soreness comes more from the impact of jumping than anything else. I wear a knee brace when I play sports or if I am doing anything agility or side to side. When I run or jog I don't wear the brace. There are still a few things that bother me. Squatting like a catcher is really sore. I think that's due to the range of motion not being back to 100%. It will be interesting this spring/summer getting back into beach volleyball and doing things on unstable surfaces.
A huge help to recovery for me personally was finding this blog and finding other people online to help out when I had questions/concerns. Also, I still stay in touch with my physical therapists and I go to a gym associated with my PT so those personal trainers and I talk every once in a while if I have questions or need help improving with something.
Best of luck all!
I'm now 7 months and what you read above is so true
After 5 months I was light jogging and back in the gym. Core work is essential, light biking (be careful due to Hamstring)
Mid way squats 30 to 60kg don't go deep
I've been playing football Since six so is useful when muscle memory kicks in trust me.
Never over do it
After 5 months things slowly start shaping up and it's only the beginning of rehab.
Quads and calf focus in them as much as you can. I've finally now got full rom with
Hamis and quads active. Long long journey
Put my football boots on for there first time in a year yesterday and had a jog felt amazing
Feel like I could sprint but I'm not allowed yet by consultant and physio. Make sure you are having regular muscle therapy as hips and everything get so tight and keep you imbalanced. If any one needs any tips just message me. Ps don't lose hope because till 5 months I was so depressed but it just clicks and you start feeling stronger
Hi guys.
I'm now at a month on and still struggling with ROM in flexion of knee. Can get 90 degrees when gravity helps but only about 70 when laying down and doing heel slides.
Got in the swimming pool for first time and just walked, knee felt looser when I came out- what exercises do u recommend doing in the pool?
At what stage could you use a bike?
My biggest issue is getting my quads working. Which i am doing some strengthening work on but the next day they feel achey, should I be pushing in and continue the next day or rest??
Pain is minimal and is more of an ache than actual pain.
Can walk with one crutch but physio doesn't want me to get rid yet as quads not strong enough.
Thanks
I think you should just let it heal, if you stretch the graft so early after op laxity will never go
After 3 months the grafts dies and slowly starts waking up with blood cells surrounding it. Not sure why a lot of ppl go so hard so early. Swimming will activate Hami with is a complete no no at this stage. Just rest up slowly walk
Leg raises calf pumps
Let it heal
The only way I could activate quads was leg out and pushing my knee down when u activate quads
I didn't use a bike until 4 months
Basically the new rule for Pcls is let the Graft heal strong and then get rom
You can always get rom back but once u mess that graft up that's it
Thanks for the advice.
When I'm in the swimming pool there was no swimming I was just walking. And was asking about bike as seemed a popular activity. My physio is on holiday for the next 3 weeks so had nobody to ask what they thought.....
my consultant wants me to be able to get knee fully extended by time I see him in a 3 weeks time but that means working on quads a lot as they haven't worked properly for about 12 years since my initial accident.
But should I continue when I ache or rest??
Kristy, are you able to fully straighten already? Or did your consultant mean fully extended, including the hyper extension.
I'm about 6 weeks, but my hyper extension have been about the same since 3 weeks even though I've been trying daily. It's worrying.
I'm seeing my consultant next week. Hopefully he clears me to go without brace with the green light for cycling.
I read this pdf file, which specifically says no biking under Phase 2 on page 4.
http://www.uwhealth.org/files/uwhealth/docs/pdf2/SM_PCL.pdf
Hope it's helpful.
No I can't fully straighten without warm the joint up then I can get the knee to straighten but can do it all the time. I wasn't given a brace and had 4/5 days of agony straight after op where even the slightest movement was unbearable so didn't move it much just tried to keep it in a comfortable position, consultant thinks that's why I haven't got fully straight yet, after 3 weeks he wanted me to be walking without crutches and at a decent level of movement to return to work..... but I am still using crutches and have small range of movement and am not back to work, so came out of my consultancy very tearful and worried that things weren't going in the right direction.
I tried to lose the crutch as soon as I can. Nobody told me to but I felt that it would be better to start using some strength in the leg rather than be over-reliant on the crutch.
I stopped using my crutch on day 6, and was limping around the house and am still limping a little due to the lack of hyper extension.
I guess the only things you can do now is to keep doing the exercises you've been told, ice to reduce swelling, sleep with the leg raised up on some cushions so that the weight of the leg will help to straighten the knee.
Good luck for us both.
Thank you very much @Sbetty . Thanks a lot for taking lot of time of yours and explaining all in detail. Thanks a lot Jai for all your support as well . Really I feel a bit motivated reading you.
The Rehabs which was mentioned by you(Sbetty) are almost the same I do . I also do the leg raises with 10 kgs weight. I diagnosed my other leg and seems a partial ACL tear in it while I have went thru PCL recon in my right leg. Due to that I do hamstring strengthening rehab for left(non operated) leg lifting weights of 10kgs for left hamstrings. Have anyone faced issue with other leg because of PCL in one leg? There is a bit of tickling noise under patella for the non operated leg but no pain.
Untill last week(around 5 months of post op) I was doing regular physio(almost all the exercises mentioned by yo(Sbetty) and was very confident on recovery.Its only after that suddenly I felt a little pain in bone and a bit of laxity/slipping away(no pain at all in the PCL graft) of right leg(operated one). I am yet to meet my surgeon and PT to find out what exactly have happened. I am confident that I haven't slipped any time or overdone any PT exercises and was just WORRIED if this is an expected scenario where the graft grows after 5 months and there will be a bit laxity after 5 months?
Also for how many months the PT exercises have to be continued? Till 7 months , 8 moths or an year ??
I do cycling every morning and evening for 5 days and weights for strengthning quads 5 to 6 times a week.Please suggest if cycling can be done twice a day . morning and evening or will that over stress the leg?
I do get lot of doubts as others here and please take some time to reply as I feel much better after going thru ur answers.
Kirsty -
In my experience, I didn't get on the bike until about week 5 or so. And even then, I wasn't able to actually peddle. I would just rock back and forth as far as I could go. I remember reading that you needed to be able to get to 110 degrees to be able to use most bicycles. Making your seat a bit higher will make it easier to get around. I started the seat a bit higher rocking back and forth, and then after maybe another two weeks of that I was able to get a full rotation VERY slowly and it was really painful doing so. Once I was able to get that rotation more fully, I lowered the seat to a normal position and worked that.
I didn't do any pool work so I can't really make any suggestions there. It just wasn't something that I really had access to. Just pay attention to the wound sites that they aren't getting irritated by the pool water would be my only suggestion.
As far as your quads, has your physio used any stim therapy (electordes taped onto your quads and activated during your session)? I did a few of those at the beginning and I found those to work pretty good. They deliver electronic pulses (it doesn't hurt) and it activates the muscles where you may have trouble activating them on your own. Also like you or someone said, roll a towel under your ankle with your leg straight, then try to flex your quads so your knee and leg straightens. When you aren't doing anything or at night if you are just sitting down, lay your leg out straight with something under your ankle. My doctor and PT told me that flexion (full straight/hyper-extension) was more important than getting ROM and is hard to get back if you go too long without being able to do so. And as far as your quads being sore the next day, at the beginning I was doing stuff every other day, that's what my PT folks recommended. You need to give your leg a day or rest to recover between workouts, similar to if you were doing other body weight training.
I also am a bit surprised you didn't have a brace and you're PT is pushing you to get off crutches. I woke up from surgery in a brace and had it for almost 8 weeks. Slow down! Personally I was on crutches for about 6 weeks. I would put varying level of weight on it as I progressed. And not to worry you, but if you have the option, it might be worth having another opinion from another Orthopedic surgeon and PT team. If it works for you, great, but everything I did and some others on here, your treatment seems to be vastly different.
Kyne Lim - I'm not trying to step in here and preach where it's not being asked, but what did your PT people say about not using crutches? I'm suprised if they had you continue that way. I was told I could put about 50% weight on my leg with crutches immediately, and then after about 2-3 weeks 75%. I was told that by using the crutches and increasing the amount of weight I was putting on it, would help with the full leg extension because the crutches would keep me fully up right and not over stressing the leg. Just my two cents. Apologies if its something you weren't looking for.
KM - Glad our exercises seem to be matching up! Sounds like we are on the same page here. I did PT twice a week for 5 months. Then I did once a week or every other week for months 6 and 7. Once I finished PT, I worked out with an athletic trainer once a week for 5 weeks. I went over things to get back into sports. Sprinting, cutting and changing directions, back peddling, acceleration, etc. Now I just take everything I have done via PT and athletic training and do stuff on my own.
I don't know about cycling twice a day. Too much exertion and your muscles will never have a chance to recover. If you have your heart set on doing it twice a day, I would do high resistance once (sounds like you are doing high level 20) and then a lower resistance the second time to keep cardio up and keeping range of motion good.
As far as the pain and laxity you are seeing, I can't say 100%. I did start to have some pain in the back of my upper calf around the 3.5 month mark I saw reading back through some old posts. And the women who responded to me basically stated that its usually due to different muscles and nerves adapting to the graft implantation. Different muscles/nerves will start to "wake up" at different times. Sounds like those ones around your bone might have woken up. Your doctor should certainly check the laxity. I did read that there is always some that is expected and most likely you wont be back to rock solid 100% like the other leg, but you're still way better off than before surgery.
Hi Sbetty,
No worries. Discussion is always good.
I was allowed to bear weight till tolerance on the next day post op. Was able to fully bear weight on 1 leg for a short period while I put on my pants since day 4 or so.
Doc didn't jump when he saw me at 2.5 weeks post op without a crutch.
Except for the initial post op pyhsio session where they teach you how to deal with crutches and some simple exercises like heel slide, straighten and contract quads, I have not been to PT yet. Doc says to take it easy and let the graft heal for the first 6 weeks and just continue doing the few exercises.
sbetty...... thanks for the advice it really does help. As you can see my treatment has been totally different from others that's why as much help from you guys is appreciated.
I saw physio and he said I still need the crutches and apparently it's just a thing with my consultant that he doesn't like people using them so tries to get rid of them at the earliest stage possible.
No physio hasn't done any stimulation work on the quads. He has massaged and manually moved the knee but apart from that it's been all down to hard work to try and get them working. Some days they feel like progress others they just don't want to do anything.
My inlaws have a static bike that I might try and use in next couple weeks just to see what I can do. And just trying to get the quads active by doing the strengthening exercises but getting frustrated that there is very little progress.
Thanks
Thanks a lot Sbetty. When you say twice a week for 5 months does that mean you are doing exercises only two times a week and remaining days no other exercises ? And after 5 weeks have you just did your daily workouts/exercises/PT just once a week ?
This is quite surprising me as I do all the exercises mentioned by you earlier every day except sunday.
Please clarify me ?
KM -
I meant that I was only seeing my physical therapist twice a week for the first 5 months. The day right after my physical therapy session I would usually use as a rest day. I would stretch those days and do mostly heal slides and work on range of motion. But I would give my legs a bit of rest from the intense day before. But on my other off days I would still be sure to work out. It really depended on how my leg was feeling. If my legs felt really sore, I would take it easier. If I was feeling good, I'd go for it again. I tried to do something every day, but I made sure not to over due it.
When I was meeting with the athletic trainer once a week, I would get things to work on from them, and then I would work on those 3-4 more times that week. My routine was usually I would play hockey/some sport during the week. I would take that feedback to the athletic trainer and say, "Hey, I had trouble changing directions" or "I had trouble going from a sprint to stopping" etc. So I would meet with them, they would give me drills/exercises to try. I'd use those throughout the week. Play the sport at the end of the week, and then find out what I needed to improve next time.
After I was done physical therapy and done athletic training (where I am now) I do some of the exercises that I spoke of before. Not as many, but I still pay attention to doing a lot of quad exercises and continuing with my range of motion and stretching of my hamstrings (I didn't have a hamstring graft). Now I am just focusing on my general workout routines. Biking, running, weights, agility, stretching.
Thank you very much sbetty . As usual you are awesome in clarifying all our doubts .
I m in month 6 now and will continue doing exercises . Will get you to you once i finishes 6 months of my post op.
Thanks again ..
Hey been reading your posts and am interested in you recovery progress. I had surgery in Jan 14 but have pain from it now and constant discomfort so looking into different methods and their outcomes.
Hi Jai, how is your progress?
Hey phill
What method did you have done and graft??
I'm doing good
10 months in
Sprinting and weight training
Need to be ready for kick off this pre season!!!
Slight numbness in shin
Tibia seems to be set at normal ish position
Twisting bending full rom all back to normal
Had staple taken out last week
Mri scan done too see final set
I know it should get even more better in a year fingers crossed
Just love sprinting again lol kneeling and kicking a ball. Consultant was one of the top 5 and he
Said right rehab and nutrition it should all get to 95 percent normality lol
Hamstring graft may I add lol
Arite folks, I'm seven months post PCL/PLC reconstruction now and gradually getting there, I think! Injured myself 20 years ago playing football/soccer and just tried to keep everything together during that time, until I met a surgeon that was prepared to do the operation.
I'd say I'm at about 70% of where I was preop, it has taken a long time to get nearly full flexion(still difficulty kneeling), have avoided all isolated hamstring exercises, doing lots of bike work, mini squats etc.
Also, 45 years old so perhaps not as quick in recovery!
Surgeon did say there was already a bit of wear in the joint, but still thought we'd done the right thing in trying to stabilise it a bit more, hopefully it will be worth it in the long run.
My biggest concern were sudden twinges I used to get when pivoting, but they do seem to be getting less and am now able to do a short jog without any major issues.
My surgeon also used an internal brace, in both my repairs, not sure if it's made my recovery any easier but he is getting fantastic results with "fresh injuries".
Seems to take an age to recover from these operations, but like others have said there is a lot for the body to re-learn and re-model, stay positive and you will get better, just don't expect it too soon!
Hi,
I noticed that when I sit down, bend my knee 90 degrees and totally relax the leg, i can move the lower leg forward a couple of mm with my hands.
I'm worried that the ACL is loose, as I did both ACL and PCL together.
Is there anyone here who did ACL? Possible to test and see if it's similar or is mine really loose?
Just a little bit of advice mainly for my UK People
And if anyone wanted to travel for the op
DR Portues at southmead Bristol
One of the best consultant and knew surgoens around and he is internationally know barely in his 40's
I'm 10 months in now made a few comments on here
For the last week or so the PCL puzzle is finally coming together
Muscles are back and ligament is maturing and getting stronger
I'm 95% full rom nearly there
I'm starting football training august one Dr gives me the thumbs up. What a ass killing joinery!!
So I'm now 11weeks post op- have full ROM. Still lots of work in getting the muscles strong enough, but physio has predicted if I put the same amount of effort into the next 6 weeks as I have so far I will be able to start trying to jog 😀 Have people started jogging and at what stage?
I think I starte 4 ish months
Becuse the graft dies after 2 ish months
And after 4 months the blood cells around new graft wake it up and start the healing and maturing phase!! So once I went past Tg risky stage as you can stretch and damage that new graft in that stage
My Physio team have been doing my rom every month slowly so they don't stretch that graft to much, so just be careful
Full healing takes 2 years first 6 months is so important never worry to much about rom as it comes back slowly but stretch the graft and all your hard work is gone
Make sure no Hami for at least 4 months as that's the most common way to screw your rehab
All about quads quads quads and core !!
1 year post op and still have knee pain
Need suggestions please
What did you have for injury, surgery, graph type? Did you do any physical therapy after, and if so for how long? Pain all the time or just when doing certain activities? Where does it hurt?
Hi Sbetty . How r u ? Its been 11 months post op now . I have been doing the rehab all these days and its a season here in australia . Would u recommend playing cricket ?? That will be a full day game of 90 overs ??
Hey KM, I'm doing great! I can't say for certain what you should or shouldn't do. I'd certainly suggest asking your doctor or physical therapist. They can instruct you better. For myself, at 8 months post surgery I started to play hockey. It took about 2-3 months to get comfortable doing that. While doing all my sports activities I wear a brace (still do now at 16 months post surgery).
I don't know so much about cricket and what that requires physically but I would think you should be able to give it a go. Just take it easy at the beginning. Your instincts are going to want you to do one thing, but your knee is going to be much slower to react than what it used to be until you can regain that athletic muscle memory. And I would certainly recommend some sort of athletic brace based on how intense the athletic activities are that you do! I have the breggs fusion and it has worked good so far!
Thanks again sbetty 👍👍.
I m able to do my sports activites but can feel the pain after the next day . When i say pain its not the ligament pain but it is some sort of strain pain types . Is that expected ?? It use to slow down again when i do my rehab like stationary bicycle , squats etc ..
I was definitely sore at the 11 month mark after sports and such. I would just ice after each activity if it was somewhat intense and that would help with any soreness. Even now, at 16 months I'm sore sometimes. Especially after going for a run and the "impact" more so than any type of sports where I'm cutting. So I think the pain and discomfort is to be expected for a while. If it really hurts after doing something then maybe go a bit easier. Even after all the physio, your muscles are relearning how to do the sports and activities again, which will take a while! Hope everyone is doing well and so glad to see so many helpful and encouraging people on this thread!
Hey all, hope everyone is doing well and on the road to recovery. I'm 18 months post surgery now and back to pretty much normal. However there are three things that still bother me that I was wondering if anyone else has experienced. The first one is kneeling. When kneeling on my knees, it is still pretty sore. To the point that I usually just end up sitting instead. Second, sitting "Indian style" with my legs crossed under me I can't do really for more than a couple minutes. And lastly, squatting down in a baseball catchers position. Anyone else have or had these issues? Anything you can recommend? Thanks as always!
Hi sbetty . Hope you r doing good . I m past an year now and i lost my strength after 2 hrs of continuous play of cricket and have to come out of ground . I think it will still take an year or two to be right back to the original place. The surgeon have even suggested the same. Coming to indian style sitting it ll b sore initially but it ll b alright once you practice daily , same with the squat as well. But for kneeling i think its better not to do at this time as i also face lot of pain with that .
PCL seems very traumatic and all together a different game 😢.
Hope you nd we all be fine in a year 👍.
All the best ..
Hi guys, so I’m 7 months post op. I have full range of movement and recently started going to the gym to use bikes and leg weights to strengthen the muscles up. Had to go on a 12 mile walk/climb up mountains and a day of caving for Work last week and the evenings were rather uncomfortable, a lot of acheness and discomfort but no pain from graft area and no swelling. Haven’t started running yet as concerned it will have the same reaction due to the high impact, how did you guys introduce running? Glad to hear your too making progress.
First obviously check in with your doctor and physical therapist to make sure that you are cleared to do so. At the 7month mark I would assume you are though. I started about month 5 with running. I was instructed to do it very slowly and gradually. And also try to do it on a "soft" surface like grass, an indoor track, etc. try avoiding a treadmill of possible as there is no give to those.
I started just jogging on a grass field. I would walk 10 yards and then jog 20 yards. I'd do this about 3-4 times. Then stop, turn around and do it again. I did that maybe 20 times or so and called it a day. Id take a day off, doing my other regular exercises still, and doing my jogging routine about every other day for a week. Then I'd start to jog further each time.
My doctor suggested starting at about .25 miles every other day, and increasing it only .10 miles a week. So it wasn't until 2-3 weeks when I was jogging half a mile. Once I got up to a mile or so I would start practicing sprinting. With the same idea as how I did my jogging. I found a grass field and would walk and then sprint. The issue with me wasn't so much the sprinting, it was the stopping. I was like a run away train with no breaks. I just slowly worked on those until I was back to normal. But take it slow and gradual for sure and try to find some sort of surface that has a bit of give. And definitely still ice after!
I spent a lot of time working with an athletic trainer on running, stopping, and accelerating. I found that when sprinting and trying to stop it was really difficult and took an Un-natural amount of steps. I found that to get better at stopping I had to try to stick my butt out behind me almost like a squat. It might sound stupid but it worked and then eventually I got used to stopping from a full sprint and doing so in a more natural manner.
Then the next part was cutting/changing directions and accelerating. Again, I worked with an athletic trainer to do it in a bit more of a controlled setting but it just takes a lot of practice (and a good knee brace!).
Best of luck! Let us know if you have any more questions!
Cheers for the advice.
I will give it a go and see how it feels.
I am no longer under the Dr/consultant or the Physio team so it’s all self led now which makes it sometimes a bit harder as haven’t got that person there to reassure you that it is capable of doing what you want it to before you try!!
Hi Guys,
Hope everybody are doing good. I just got some good news for all the PCL surgery sufferers that it has been almost an year and half i have gone through the surgery and I have been an active participant in the competitive sports since 5 months. What does that mean is if we are committed towards the initial 1 year precise workout there are high chances of leading sports life even after surgery. So guys work out hard on your physio till one to two years and you can absolutely back to normal. I just want to let you all know my case study so that some one or the other who are going through the same pain which i went through will be motivated with a ray of hope for their future sporting activities.
All the best guys. How is it going @sbetty. All good ??
Hi bro are u from india if then guide me where to get the pcl recon and also how i ur leg know any increase in laxity
Hi bro how is ur knee now what graft and surgery did u get open or arthroscopic, is there an increase in laxity over the years
Hi bro please reply asap how is ur knee laxity now u guys r the only one who gave me hope during these dark times im only 20 and have a complete pcl and partial acl tear from mri
Hey bro ur from india where did u get ur surgery done from
I’m from the USA - 4.5 years post surgery it’s like nothing even happened. No laxity, no issues.
What arthroscopic procedure was performed can u tell me in detail like tibial or transtibial, what measures were taken by ur surgeon to decrease the killer turn effect, plz it would be a huge help i have torn my pcl completely and am only 21 yrs old and scared shitless how old were u at the time of injury
Also how long after ur initial injury u went for surgery
Its like nothing even happened - i hope someday this could be me, i am clinically depressed after my pcl injury and suicidal i haven't experienced anything in my life and probably will never do now, as pcl reconstruction in india is not that advanced compared to USA
First off, hang in there. You’re not alone in this. I did my surgery about 3 months after the injury. Those 3 months I did PT, strengthening my leg first. I had my surgery the beginning of April. I started PT the day after surgery. For my surgery I don’t know exactly how it was performed. I was 27 at the time. I was super active. Sports were my life. The doctor used a cadaver graft. I think it was an Achilles that they used. The “killer turn” I think is something that’s over-rated. I asked my doctor about that too, and said it’s not really a thing any more with the imagine they’re able to do. Mine was done athroscopicly too. He specialized in ACL surgery too, so maybe find someone that is familiar with that? He did probably 100 or so PCL surgeries, but had done thousands of ACL. And he pretty much treated it similarly with his approach to surgery and Physical Therapy suggestion (NOT exactly the same, but similar). Strengthen the quads and stretch the hamstrings was basic approach. Very limited, To 0 hamstring activity for 6 weeks after surgery, as activating the hamstring muscles pulls on the graph locations.
I was in a brace 8 weeks after surgery. The first 6 were locked straight. Only off for PT and doing my own exercises at home. The biggest thing they told me with PT was getting range of motion back. Stay on top of that as much you can. Do “heel slides” using a towel to pull your knee slowly back. After a couple weeks, sit on like a barstool or anything high and just let your leg hang, so gravity tries to pull your knee down. The goal is to be able to get to 90 degrees efficiently, and then probably about 110-120 total. That will take several months though and was the most difficult part for me. I actually had a cortisone shot on my knee at about 3 months because I wasn’t making enough progress with range of motion. After that though things accelerated quickly.
The pain honestly wasn’t too bad. I had a nerve block put in for surgery, so I felt zero pain (or really anything) in my leg for 2 days after. During that time don’t over due it! That was my mistake. I took prescription pain killers for about 4-5 days, and only 1 dose before bed to make sleeping easier. But I mostly took over the counter pain medicine mostly.
So I had surgery on 4/1, and then I had my wedding, that I danced at, 4 months later. I wasn’t going wild, but I had fun. I went on a honeymoon and did some light hiking. I was definitely sore after, but it was manageable.
Ice will be your best friend too. Ice it pretty much anytime you do anything besides just walking once you get to that point. That helped a ton. While you’re in the brace, ice it as much as you can, always after exercises/PT.
Read through the whole long post though, I talked about it very detailed, when it was much more recent. But if you don’t see something ask away. And like I said, I’m back to normal now. I felt about 90% too about a year after surgery. I wore a brace for basketball, hockey, beach volleyball. And at this point, I’m brace free.
Hey man thanks for the reply,i have been reading the whole post 10-11 times regularly so as to calm my nerves at this point I've memorized all your points , however im confused my surgeon says to go with autograft whereas most of the people's experiences I've read pointed to cadaver or allograft why is that perhaps in usa they have very high quality allografts stored cau u confirm with your doctor about this issue autograft vs allograft and whether one is better than the other also did ur surgeon say anything about hitting arthritis early cause mine said its a possibility and also from the all the research i have made those studies that u can find on the Internet they are the ones freaking me out, they point to the graft weakning over time or causing a bone depression at the killer turn over time and hence loosening the graft and increasing posterior lax or sag over the years thus causing the instability of the leg amd hence causing arthritis, what r your views on this,also during you pt before your surgery did you wear a knee brace cause mine pcl rupture was undiagnosed for 4 months and im scared that it might have caused more problems
Hey man thanks for the reply,i have been reading the whole post 10-11 times regularly so as to calm my nerves at this point I've memorized all your points , however im confused my surgeon says to go with autograft whereas most of the people's experiences I've read pointed to cadaver or allograft why is that perhaps in usa they have very high quality allografts stored cau u confirm with your doctor about this issue autograft vs allograft and whether one is better than the other also did ur surgeon say anything about hitting arthritis early cause mine said its a possibility and also from the all the research i have made those studies that u can find on the Internet they are the ones freaking me out, they point to the graft weakning over time or causing a bone depression at the killer turn over time and hence loosening the graft and increasing posterior lax or sag over the years thus causing the instability of the leg amd hence causing arthritis, what r your views on this,also during you pt before your surgery did you wear a knee brace cause mine pcl rupture was undiagnosed for 4 months and im scared that it might have caused more problems.
Aslo can u get in contact with your surgeon to find out what exactly he did to minimize the effect of killer turn so i can suggest that too mine or find out a better surgeon in my country and also ask him the allograft vs autograft thing too, seriously man this would be a huge help, the help of a lifetime
Also did u have an isolated pcl injury or something else was damaged
Im sorry to bombard you with all these questions but do u feel pain aur weirdness in cold weather or rainy days
Hey KM, did ur laxity which you got 5 months post op improve reply bro
Also i swear this is the last one but ur pcl surgery was done by single bundle or double bundle plzz get back to me
Single or double there isn’t any difference from latest research. Long as you haven’t been doing major physical activities 4 months won’t cause any damage. I used hami tendon. Most common. Takes two years off constant PT and slowly getting back in too sport during that time. No lax. Keep quads strong. Before op a and after. Defo look for a surgeon who has done PCLs. Maybe think about going abroad.
My doctor recommended allograft solely because he thought that would speed my recovery up and would be one less thing to have to do post surgery to recovery. I would just be recovering from the pcl versus the pcl and taking a bit of muscle/tendon from elsewhere. Also, because I was using an allograft, it was single strand, Achilles ligament. If using your own graft, maybe discuss with doctor about double versus single.
My injury was isolated PCL. I wore a brace for like the first week after injury, but that was it, and it was a very lightweight one, not the best support, so I wouldn’t worry about it.
Also, and I want to stress this, I chose to have surgery, I didn’t need it. My doctor was very adamant that I could do several months of PT, get my surrounding muscles strong enough, and then just wear a brace for sports. In those 4 months between injury and surgery, I was getting way better, only had occasional soreness, but I chose surgery because I just didn’t want to deal with it later on in life. There was bigger chance of arthritis like effects If no surgery.
My doctor did say there was still a chance for arthritis later on in life, but said that is pretty minimal. He said basically as long as I do PT and stay active, it shouldn’t be an issue. At this point, I notice zero soreness at all. Rain/snow etc doesn’t bother it. It’s really like it never happened.
This article should calm your fears about the killer turn: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12966378/ - basically, it says using the traditional method arthroscopicly is the best route still. I wouldn’t get too hung up on it though, really.
Ask your doctor how many PcL reconstructions they’ve done. Then ask how many ACL they have done. If you’re not comfortable with the answers, you have to go elsewhere. Remember though, it’s a less common injury. My doctor was about a 10-1 ration of ACL to PCL.
Also yes, my injury was just PCL isolated.
As far as bone/graft weakening, that is what it is. Nothing can really stop that. But the idea is that over 1-3 years, the graft is completely absorbed/grown into the body and it becomes complete fused together like it was originally yours. There’s always higher risk of reinjury, which is why you do PT, and basically never stop that even after you’re healed. Stay strong and staying active. Use a brace in high risk situation I’d you think it’s necessary. But I think the risk of failure is something way down the line, like 60/70 years old where it’s not an issue really.
Rest of them forget it just tell me about the single bundle or double bundle graft one cause im really losing my mind over this cause my surgeon said they only do single bundle but if i knew what one u got it would give me peace knowing yours gave u such good results
Oh god thanks for taking the time to answer me that's a huge load of my chest, can u just tell me about the significance of doing quads or ot before going into surgery cause my pcl was diagnosed 3-4 days ago and im thinking about going for surgery somewhere in the next week,also there is one major factor thats eating me alive its that i suffered a grade 3 proximal tibia fracture almost 2.5 years although it has been healed completely im worried that may have caused low bone mineral density in my bones which will thus cause the erosion of bones way soon by the graft at the acute angle, but however they do drill our bones so if that doesn't decrease bmd the fracture shouldn't decrease bmd right, its just that ive suffered too much at this point that im paranoid all the time
Its PT not ot these things dont have an edit option significance of pt before surgery
Hey jai how is ur knee after all these years in terms of pain, discomfort.how long has it been since ur initial surgery and also is keeping quads before significant cause im going in for surgery in the next week and will get PT after that, also r u from india cuz ur name is jai, also ur hamstring tendon was allo or autograft
Was yours just PCL or something else? I started with PT because the goal was to not do surgery. Also, I couldn’t yet because I had too much swelling. So once your swelling goes down, that is usually when you can have the surgery. PT before just makes recovery easier after. The thought is that after surgery you will lose a lot of muscle from inactivity. So if you can build it up bigger before, it makes an easier recovery after. I do k ow people that have done surgeries soon after though and had no issues.
The double versus single is preference to the surgeon I think. Double is stronger but usually shorter and stiffer. Single is usually a bit longer and gives surgeon more room to “play” doing the surgery was my understanding. Both should be fine options. You want your surgeon doing what they are comfortable with.
Also just make your surgeon knows your past injury history so they can plan accordingly. My advice though, it sounds like you don’t trust your doctor...it might be time to look for a new one. You want someone you trust opposed to me, who yeah I went through it, but I have no real medical education
It's just pcl for now as per the mri but I've heard these things are not always reliable, however this low bone mineral density thing is bugging me but if a drill doesn't decrease bmd then technically fracture shouldn't do right, that's how im Calming my nerves i dont have a medical education either, im switching doctors actually he is the secretary of asian arthroscopy society, hope he clears it for me, anyways, u cant fathom how much ur replies meant to me, hope to be thanking u in person when im in usa for my post graduation and with full recovery of course
Yes mate I’m Indian, it’s been 3 years now. Everything is fine. I can play competitive football again so I’m happy. Yes it’s never going to be 100% but keep muscles strong and you will be fine. Most ppl get single bundle as double makes no diff. I think your reading way too much into it. Find a surgeon who has performed PCLs before. Your in the USA?
No im Indian too bro where r u from exactly in India and where did u get your surgery done from and what do u mean not 100% exactly, how would u differentiate your good leg and bad leg
I’m from the UK mate. I found a surgeon who has dealt with many PCLs so I was lucky as barely anyone knew much about them. It’s common sense any injury that requires reconstruction will never be the same. Long as you PT hard after get strong again you will be fine. I think you need to first find a specialist. Remember everyone heals different and reacts different. My op was the most painful you could imagine! I worked hard for a whole year and I’m 90% back to normality. The only diff from before op is I can’t bend fully I’m at mayb 95%.
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